Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Let it be known that wars and other acts were caused by zealots and false religious leaders. the bible prohibits homosexuality but it does not ask us to victimize them. if these churches really practiced the ways of Jesus and what is indicated in the Bible, they would try to teach their congregation directly about respect, tolerance, love and how to teach others about it instead of trying to make a spectacle of the situation.

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Zealots are perhaps more prone to engaging in war/violence, but they get plenty of inspiration from religious texts and teachings.

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Thank you Mr. Smith. It is nice to see a politician with a backbone, who understands that to be strong, you must also be compassionate. Christians are always taught to love the sinner but not the sin. Christians are taught that everyone is a sinner and so not to judge others. They seem to forget this and project rage and hate rather than Christian love. Leaders like you, Mr. Smith, are role models. You present an intelligent and thoughtful argument, which may just help to stop another young Belizean from committing suicide because they are gay or lesbian and are the subject of bullying and harassment. All Belizeans should be committed to preventing a single Belizean child from growing up in fear because of their sexuality.

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Thank you for publishing these points. If the churchs in Belize is charging the prices they charge to educate our young people, and people pay thru the nose to send their kids to school, why are they wasting money to hire attorneys for bs like this. Spend the money where it belongs, in the classrooms, free books. This is the most absoulte dumbest thing i have seen a group of churchs do. They do not care about our childrens education, they just want money from the parents and then go and beg for more and beg for more money in other countries. This whole thing is horrible. Some body better call the Pope.lol

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

I think this entire situation brings out the very important, salient point that the local churches are indeed out of touch with their hierarchical superiors. A simple example, though I imagine trivial to most, is that the Vatican has been pushing for a more traditional liturgy since 2007 at the behest of the Pope himself, but nothing has been said about this by the local church. It makes one question what is really the church's purpose here. It indeed seems that the church in Belize has been acting as if we live in a world out of touch with present-day affairs.

Indeed, this is a matter that is hardly of a religious nature at this time. It's a matter of human rights as you rightly said. The great big problem that most Belizeans have is that they lack education and, even worse, enlightenment. ( No surprise there). The driving force behind the opposition, without a doubt, is bigotry.

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Very well said Mr. Smith. It's too bad that reason and logic never enters homophobic arguments or else this whole case would be moot, wouldn't it?

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

1. Would it be wrong to theorize that it's been UNIBAM members themselves applauding Mr. Smith's article?

2. Is it not a strange coincidence that it is the former Minister known as 'Mr. Pinky' whose sexuality many have questioned who is defending the homosexuals?

You show your true colors, Godfrey!

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Mr. Critic:

1. By "theorize" you mean, of course, spin it out of thin air as you can't possibly have any knowledge as to who commented on the article which was shared by many people on facebook.

2. Your inability to argue your position with any semblance of logic and resorting to personal attacks on Mr. Smith shows you for who you really are - an intolerant homophobe of low IQ.

3. The stupid - it burns.

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Mr Critic,

I hope your day job isn't providing informed, sensible critiques, because if it is I would be worried for your future. Of course some of the comments may indeed be by UNIBAM members, but since UNIBAM is a very small NGO, not a huge organisation that anybody can join, many are likely to be from non-gay, non-lesbian, non-transexual individuals who happen to believe in equal rights for all human beings (Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, men, women, black, while, green, even green Christian gay men if there are any out there ;-)).

I don't know Mr Smith's sexuality, and if he chooses to keep it private, that is his right as a human being. If he is gay, straight, bisexual or otherwise does not matter one ounce: he has written an informed, factual article, which points out that the Belizean churches are in fact going against their own superiors in demanding this law remain in place.

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

I can interact with homosexuals. Most females do it. We do not discriminate against them being around. But you know what. After a law is passed to "protect" certain individuals or groups who claim victimization, they become public perverts, intolerable to others, proud and boastful. I wouldn't want these people to publicly be expressing private intimate acts of what I consider perverted nature. Most of us will go to hell. we claim to be christians and interpret our Bible the way we find it most convenient, even if the truth is so simple. We cannot understand it because to fulfill our deepest diabolical pleasures is what we want. We hate God and claim we love him. Why did God create men and women so perfectly then. Nasty butt lovers!

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

And... as far as i'm concerned many people's rights are infringed upon every single day. The enforcers of the law are more criminal than the criminals themselves. Many people are victimized everyday. Why are homosexuals so special? What kind of freedoms are they really looking forward to? I don't hate them. I hate the ulterior motive which is that freedom to kiss and caress in the open, to hold hands, to SHOW others. We do not need this. Our children don't need to see this. The internet is enough evil already. Although of course I won't deny its benefits. Go to hell all of you suckers!

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Angel, racists and misogynists had the same concerns when people were fighting for equal rights (yes EQUAL RIGHTS - not special privileges as you falsely argue) for women, people of African descent or other oppressed groups. And back then the haters too were arguing what kind of hell on earth would be unleashed if women were able to vote, own property or talk back to their husbands, etc. or black people would be able to roam the streets of cities as if they were equal to white men. Intolerant people were making up stories and telling these falsehoods as if they were true just like you're doing it now.

Malicious lies are all the haters have, because if they were capable of using reason and logic they wouldn't be talking hateful trash with no shame or fear of God.

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Bun out all Chi Chi!!

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Bu who is oppressing homosexuals? Don't our Belizean homosexuals enjoy the same privileges that all enjoy? Don't many of them work in the public service, in the BDF, at the Govt buildings, for& with the govt? What is their ulterior motive? Who is sending them to prison for being who they are? What is it that they want. I know. They want people, yes ordinary people who look at them with distaste and sometimes throw remarks to discriminate against them, to stop doing it. Just like I'd want people not to discriminate against indigenous people, just like I'd want women not to be discriminated against. It won't happen homosexuals. The world is unfair and we just have to learn to be well composed and not look like asses and behave like we cannot deal with the world. like was said by angel, we should not allow ourselves to be controlled by a group of perverts who have nothing to cry about because their will always be homosexuals and that cannot be taken away from them. What we will not accept is what they want. Don't you? There is no longer shame, nor fear. Read Timothy 2 chp. three. Then go back to the old testament and take the Bible in its implicity. But even the devil knows the Word.

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Bu who is oppressing homosexuals? Don't our Belizean homosexuals enjoy the same privileges that all enjoy? Don't many of them work in the public service, in the BDF, at the Govt buildings, for& with the govt? What is their ulterior motive? Who is sending them to prison for being who they are? What is it that they want. I know. They want people, yes ordinary people who look at them with distaste and sometimes throw remarks to discriminate against them, to stop doing it. Just like I'd want people not to discriminate against indigenous people, just like I'd want women not to be discriminated against. It won't happen homosexuals. The world is unfair and we just have to learn to be well composed and not look like asses and behave like we cannot deal with the world. like was said by angel, we should not allow ourselves to be controlled by a group of perverts who have nothing to cry about because their will always be homosexuals and that cannot be taken away from them. What we will not accept is what they want. Don't you? There is no longer shame, nor fear. Read Timothy 2 chp. three. Then go back to the old testament and take the Bible in its implicity. But even the devil knows the Word.

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

FYAH FI CHI CHI!!!!

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

It is strange seeing Christians speaking as if they know anything about Christianity and then quoting the Old Testament. Christ came and died for everyone's sins. If a single Christian here has ever had sex out of wedlock, engaged in oral or anal intercourse of any sort - or even intercourse without the intention of procreation, then they are as guilty of sin as any homosexual. Get with the New Testament guys..that is what Christianity is all about. WTF is with people using stuff from the Old Testament. You might as well start stoning people to death for working on the Sabbath if youre going to use the Old Testament. You cant change the Bible to suit what you want it to say. Jesus says to love everyone. At the end of the day, we all know the truth and there is science to prove it. Those that are the most anti gay are the most likely to be gay and ashamed. If you cant love without judging, then you need to go back to church and pray that you'll learn how to be a real Christian. Or just close your eyes and ears and keep listening to your lying pastors, who collect plenty of money and leave our children in terrible schools. Stop being weak, stand up to your leaders for what Christ really wanted - peace and tolerance to all. I say if they keep this law then they must immediately arrest all men who have received oral sex from a woman in their lives.

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

HAHAHAHAHAHA ..I find it very funny that a butt jockey would compare sphincter modification to oral sex from a woman...I tell yu..all these arguments are so flawed.lol...lol...lol

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

I don't have an opinion but am happy to see THIS conversation taking place.

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Nice article, Mr. Smith. Very enlightening in terms of the Belizean churchs' views and position against the very people they should be reaching out to instead of condemning. Comments posted is an eye opener in terms of how easily some of us can bring down our Belizean brothers and sisters because of their sexual preferences. Can't there be a healthy discussion without all the name calling and derogatory statements??

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Nice article, Mr. Smith. Very enlightening in terms of the Belizean churchs' views and position against the very people they should be reaching out to instead of condemning. Comments posted is an eye opener in terms of how easily some of us can bring down our Belizean brothers and sisters because of their sexual preferences. Can't there be a healthy discussion without all the name calling and derogatory statements??

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Nice article, Mr. Smith. Very enlightening in terms of the Belizean churchs' views and position against the very people they should be reaching out to instead of condemning. Comments posted is an eye opener in terms of how easily some of us can bring down our Belizean brothers and sisters because of their sexual preferences. Can't there be a healthy discussion without all the name calling and derogatory statements??

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

I agree that all Rear Admirals in the Butt Brigade should be allowed to compromise the elasticity of their sphincters as they deem fit, free from harassment, discrimination and the likes. It is every fudge packer's fundamental constitutional right to ride the Hershey Highway in peace! How can the church have any moral authority to lecture to any limp wrist when they (especially the catholic church) have been actively sweeping the abuse of children under the rug for years? They need to look at their own loins before they start peeking into those of others. The Brownie Making lifestyle is practised between consenting adults and therefore there can be nothing wrong with it. I think dat most fruits did not choose that lifestyle but, unfortunately for them, they were born that way and therefore they are created by God just as much as the rest of us are. Having said this, I must say that as much as it is every Queer's right to be a nancy and be proud of it, it is also anybody else's fundamental right to dislike them if they so choose!

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Ignorance breeds ignorance....knowledge brings light. Good Article. Bravo!

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Godfrey Smith is a fudge packing fairy!!!

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

George Cadle Price, it seems like either your father or your brother talk too much for you to know that Mr. Smith is a fudge packing fairy!!!

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Actually Sefe, it was my father and brother and your mother but that still doesn't change the fact that he is a Fudge Packing Fairy now does it!!!!

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Excellent article! If you read the comments of the people who disagree, their criticism are unfounded and down right stupid.

What they dont realize is protecting the equal treatment of others (including gays) is an effort that protects equal treatment of them selves and their children.

Sydney

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Thanks much for all the interesting info. I'm writing a novel about this very topic: The RC and located in Belize - so have done a lot of research. What I'm wondering right now is just how actively is the law against the practice of same sex male activity ferreted out and prosecuted in Belize. In my novel I have a sort of commune where both gender unions live and a sort of underground railroad so the children abused for their sexual preferences can be channeled to this group. Is this plausible? I want to stay plausible, though writing fiction. I happen to be straight myself, but certainly don't think this issue is grounds for the abortion of any human rights including those of marriage!

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

*I know many People, shun this "topic," the same way most People refuse to discuss the "aids epidemic." I am a Man of Religious Christian Faith, I am not a Preacher, but I go to Church and I pray, and Worship in my Home; and I will always remain Ubiquitous pertaining to the Gays, and Lesbian Issue. I "support," the TRUE meaning of MARRIAGE, which is defined between a MAN & WOMAN: I don't harbor HATE towards these People, in regards to their SEXUALITY; but I will always PRAY for them unceasingly. Belize, is too small a Country, and need's to TAKE A STAND AGAINST SAME SEX MARRIAGE. And I can Confidently affirmed, that more than 75% of its Population is Christian Leaning, and AGAINST THIS PROPOSAL. Imagine what this "un-natural act," would do to a FRAGILE SOCIETY, such as Belize. This is not what the Jewel of Belize, is about; we are a Growing Nation, with its share of PERILS, but I maintain this SHOULDN'T be one: Individuals will always "engage," in un-natural - behavior, but a "few" in Government, or those sitting upon a Judicial Bench, must not OFFICIATE, SOLIDIFY, & CONDONE, such un-natural practice, which is contrary to the Moral Fabric of our Society, and which our CHRISTIAN MORALS WAS FOUNDED UPON. Don't Forsake the Biblical Teachings; GOD, DESTROY a Nation called Sodom and Gomorrah, due to their DEVIANT BEHAVIOR. Belizeans, need to be "careful," the recent HURRICANE, was only a WAKE-UP CALL, to a very, very FRAGILE CITY.*

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

Lionel

Consider this. The constitution in common law countries do NOT exist to protect the majoirty. The majoirty does not need the constitution because they can pass any resolution/laws they so choose. The constitution is there to protect minorities from the overzealousness of the majority (such as the religious fanatics supporting this unconstitutional law.)

There is absolultely no reason to treat gays any different under the law even if it is against YOUR personal religious beliefs. Just as how you are free to practice your faith and beliefs, others should be able to do the same. What amazes me the most is that others quickly pull their bible to defend this legal debate. There is NOTHING in the constitution of Belize that references christianity. Indeed there is even no reference to the Bible! It promotes a belief in God. There are many religions out there that are NOT influenced by the bible or Christianity. And even so there are some Christians and non christian religiouns that embrace gay behaviour so the issue is not unilaterally accepted the way the churches in Belize try to make it sound.

IN summary this is a legal debate and should remain as one. I firmly believe that whenever we start making exceptions to the principle of equality under the law, we NO longer have equality under the law. Its as simple as that!

syd

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

this is a very interesting article and i am particularly happy that Mr Smith used good research re: Vatican and Anglican views in preparing it. it is amazing that the local church leaders would promote such a behaviour that encourages hatred and segregation but then again many church leaders in the past were happy to sit by as things such as holocaust, slavery, rampant oppression of races, apartheid, and pedophelia were apparent in front of their eyes. i believe the church and their beliefs are way past their usefulness and should go the way of the Dodo.

i would also like to highlight that our Prime Minister himself seems to superficially comment on this item saying that it seems to be a US import into Belizean society which is automatically wrong and he would obviously fight it in court. it was clear from the interview that he obviously had other comments which he must have stifled so as not to look as bigotted as he obviously is. I am glad the conversation has started in this country and i wish UNIBAM all the luck and support in their fight.

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

this is a very interesting article and i am particularly happy that Mr Smith used good research re: Vatican and Anglican views in preparing it. it is amazing that the local church leaders would promote such a behaviour that encourages hatred and segregation but then again many church leaders in the past were happy to sit by as things such as holocaust, slavery, rampant oppression of races, apartheid, and pedophelia were apparent in front of their eyes. i believe the church and their beliefs are way past their usefulness and should go the way of the Dodo.

i would also like to highlight that our Prime Minister himself seems to superficially comment on this item saying that it seems to be a US import into Belizean society which is automatically wrong and he would obviously fight it in court. it was clear from the interview that he obviously had other comments which he must have stifled so as not to look as bigotted as he obviously is. I am glad the conversation has started in this country and i wish UNIBAM all the luck and support in their fight.

Telemedia

Was hoping for a commentary on Nationalization and fence jumping (literal not proverbial)... what say you Godfrey???

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

FENCE JUMPING!!!!!!!!!! Lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol.lol That was some funny stuff. Godfrey mussi have experience di do that!!!!

Re: The Church, Homosexuality & the Constitution

"Papal infallibility, it may be recalled, is the dogma in Roman Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error".

Not quite right!

You needed to quote the wikipedia definition in its entirety:
"Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church which states that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error when he solemnly declares or promulgates to the universal Church a dogmatic teaching on faith as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation".

In other words, not all pronouncements made by the Pope are deemed infallible; only those that are so declared "as being contained in divine revelation".